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 Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling

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Fluff Fluff

Zed

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PostSubject: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 8:39 pm

Recently I've wanted to try and build a Mist Valley deck that specializes in locking down the opponent much like a typical Mist Valley Ninja deck attempts to. The ultimate lock that can be done, and that few people utilize, is having Apex on the field alongside Mist Valley Thunderbird. Due to this combination, each time your opponent activates an effect, you can return Thunderbird back to your hand and thus Thunderbird's effect activates immediately returning it to the field. In short; as long as you can keep Thunderbird from being destroyed you can negate every effect your opponent has without any drawbacks to you.

What I'm wondering is much like the Herald of Perfection chain ruling I had awhile back. Say I have both Apex and Thunderbird on the field. My opponent activates Dark Hole, then I obviously use Apex's effect to negate it. They decide "lol no" and chain Compulsory Evacuation Device to Apex's effect and target Apex. What is confusing me: does Thunderbird immediately go back to my hand when I choose to negate it, much like Mark of the Rose immediately banishes a plant from the grave upon activation? If not, would I just be able to negate their Compulsory, then negate their Dark Hole as well since Thunderbird would return right to the field? I'm assuming no because I don't think Thunderbird could come back since the chain sequence wouldn't be finished resolving but I don't know. Basically it comes down to if Thunderbird would immediately come back after negating the activation of an effect or not. If it would, that means I could negate multiple times per chain.

Please help ;-;
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Nottu

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 9:01 pm

Doesn't Thunderbird negate BY returning itself? If that's the case, isn't the returning to hand a cost to activate?


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Fluff Fluff

Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 10:59 pm

Well I'd use Apex's effect to return Thunderbird to my hand to negate the activation of an effect. I'm pretty sure it's a cost but I wasn't sure. So I basically can't negate one thing by returning Thunderbird with Apex's effect and negate it again because the chain wouldn't be done resolving, right? I'm too noob to know rulings ;-;
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Superion Maximus

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:05 pm

two things returning the mist valley to hand for avian isnt a cost so if somone chained compulse thunderbird wouldnt have left the field in the first place also apex avian cannot be used twice in the same chain so it would be returned by compulse


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Fluff Fluff

Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:08 pm

So Apex would negate the activation of Dark Hole by instantly returning Thunderbird to hand, but then Compulsory would just bounce Apex back to hand anyway? Would the negation still go through even though Apex isn't on the field at the time that it's effect would resolve negating Dark Hole?
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Superion Maximus

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:14 pm

heres what would happen apex would bounce back to hand then since its not on the field its effects dosnt resolve thunderbird never gets bounced to hand and gets destroyed by darkhole


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[06:28:59] C.C. : Hero. Muh may be a troll. But the man knowxs damned well how to duel.
[06:29:03] C.C. : Why isn't he in?

[22:24:47 19/04/14] * Superion Maximus bitchslaps all of u
[22:25:11 19/04/14] DarkSoul : That bitchslap echoed throughout all space and summoned Palkia
My favourite images

Official 7th gym leader of the ODA League

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Fluff Fluff

Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:27 pm

You're my hero, Muh ;-; But if say I had Mist Valley Apex, Thunderbird, and Falcon on the field: if I used Apex's effect to return Falcon to negate Compulsory, then I used Apex's effect to negate Dark Hole, Thunderbird would return after resolution of Apex's effect and all would be fine and dandy?
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Superion Maximus

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:35 pm

Fluff Fluff wrote:
You're my hero, Muh ;-; But if say I had Mist Valley Apex, Thunderbird, and Falcon on the field: if I used Apex's effect to return Falcon to negate Compulsory, then I used Apex's effect to negate Dark Hole, Thunderbird would return after resolution of Apex's effect and all would be fine and dandy?
apex's effect cannot be used twice in a single chain so compulse returns it to hand and darkhole destroys 2 monsters


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[06:28:59] C.C. : Hero. Muh may be a troll. But the man knowxs damned well how to duel.
[06:29:03] C.C. : Why isn't he in?

[22:24:47 19/04/14] * Superion Maximus bitchslaps all of u
[22:25:11 19/04/14] DarkSoul : That bitchslap echoed throughout all space and summoned Palkia
My favourite images

Official 7th gym leader of the ODA League

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Fluff Fluff

Zed

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:39 pm

How can you tell if something can't be used more than once in a chain? I remember having this problem when somebody brought up Naturia Barkion in a duel and Naturia Beast can be used multiple times per chain. Go figure I'm probably wrong though ;-;
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Superion Maximus

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PostSubject: Re: Mist Valley Apex Avian ruling   Mon Dec 02, 2013 11:50 pm

Fluff Fluff wrote:
How can you tell if something can't be used more than once in a chain? I remember having this problem when somebody brought up Naturia Barkion in a duel and Naturia Beast can be used multiple times per chain. Go figure I'm probably wrong though ;-;
it has to do with how a card is worded and is an explanation i dont wanna type on a phone ask don patch if he still has the link i sent him for ps card text


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[06:28:59] C.C. : Hero. Muh may be a troll. But the man knowxs damned well how to duel.
[06:29:03] C.C. : Why isn't he in?

[22:24:47 19/04/14] * Superion Maximus bitchslaps all of u
[22:25:11 19/04/14] DarkSoul : That bitchslap echoed throughout all space and summoned Palkia
My favourite images

Official 7th gym leader of the ODA League

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