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 Lesson #11: The New Banlist

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Pride

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PostSubject: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 7:37 pm

Hey everyone, PTA here.  Last weeks lesson wasn't the greatest, but we actually have news this week!  As you all may know, the TCG list was confirmed, anndd...  It's not the same as the OCG.  A lot of discussions have been going on as well.  Whether you like it or not I suppose, the lists will be updated in the 1st of January.  Regardless, time for the lesson!

http://www.yugioh-card.com/en/limited/

This week it's going to be themed after the ban-list.  And we're going to be a little more distributive with the points.

1.  50 points each:
Post two cards that could be replacements for both Monster Reborn and Heavy Storm.

2.  50 points each:
Post as many decks as you can that you think can benefit from this TCG list.  Let's leave the maximum amount of points to be earned 200 though.  Also make sure to explain why!

3.  50 points each:
Post 2 cards.  1 that you think shouldn't have been on the TCG list (explain why), and on that you think should have been on the TCG list (also explain why).

Good luck everyone!  The grand total for points this week is 400/400.  As per usual, this lesson will stay up until next Saturday.
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Zeno

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 7:54 pm

Well, A card that can replace reborn is Call of the Haunted, there is also Zero- Max for infernity. It also kills monsters with lower attack then the summoned monster. Only downside is no BP.

As for heavy, there is Delta Crow - Anti Reverse. It's a pretty good card, and if you have 3 blackwings it can be used from hand. As for another one, Malevolent Catastrophe.

Infernity gain a bit because heavy destroys their backrow quite a bit. Also now decks that start a lot of chains from hand such as hieratics don't have to worry much about soul drain which slowed down their plays a lot. Decks that run a lot of monsters like chaos dragons don't worry about shock locking them down for the whole game.

I think that they should have limited spell book of secrets. Its a search for any spellbook card, and if spellbooks don't have that card then they pretty much die. I don't quite think solemn judgment should be on there because it can also be countered, it takes away half of your life points, and it was only at 1 to begin with. It was not as broken as some may have thought to me.
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MajinKev84

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 8:24 pm

1 in my deck anyway the hitting of reborn and storm hasnt hurt me to badly  i changed out my lances for MST and have lakeside lady the combo of those 2 typically take care of any backrow issues along with my black rose .....and reborn well i have 3 rekindlings ...but for other decks cards like call of the haunted, XYZ reborn, and pinpoint guard  ....
2 decks that benefit obviously blackwings and zombies  TG and agents  since much of them has been giving back... the loss of  heavy will give way to alot more control decks like glads   and other decks that have versatility over otk power ...

honestly i dont think thousand eyes should still be on the TCG list anymore  i know it wasn't talked about or addded but there is no real reason to keep it there 
and as for cards added on to it Lavalval Chain i am calling it now will be on the limited list if not banned by next format its shenanigans with infernity alone is a put to 1 pottential and is one of the most busted  cards out on par with big eye
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-Kira-

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 8:26 pm

Monster Reborn I would say call of the haunted although in my opinion its not the best card that revives something but it gets the job done

Heavy: A wing beat of Giant dragon What this card does is Return 1 face-up Level 5 or higher Dragon-Type monster you control to the hand, and destroy all Spell and Trap Cards on the field.

For Call of the haunted: Hero's. This is because heros do not run that many monsters and call of the haunted is a great way to Bring back like a bubble man and xyz 

For A wing beat of Giant dragon: Hieratics, Chaos dragon, Dragon ruler this is pretty self explanatory For these 3 decks you SS most of the time. Like for hieratics you can special Tefnuit Use Wing Beat pop all Back row, Chaos Dragons generally same thing although you will lose some cards in grave it still works. And Dragon Rulers would be the best Cause all you do is SS with that deck and you Have cards in grave most of the time. The best Part is Dragons Dont run backrow ( well Most of the time )

A card that Shouldnt be on the TCG list is... Stratos.. This is b/c Stratos is what heros are! first of all he is the searcher the popper the main guy you want to recycle so Frigg the third E-call its nothing comparing to Stratos.

A card that should be banned/limited ( in my opinion..) is Spell Book of Fate! 1. cause i hate that card with a passion and thats because it dosnt target.. so no matter what the hell you do something is getting banished, flipped, or sent back to hand and he really changes a lot of things during the coarse of the duel.
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The Doctor

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 9:16 pm

1. Monster reborn will be replaced with Call of the haunted and shallow grave could also work for some purposes. Monster reborn still remains the best reborn card, but call of the haunted is a trap and can only summon in attack position, this part of the text can come in handy and not so much in other situations (When this card leaves the field, destroy that target. When that target is destroyed, destroy this card.) It can come in handy when it is tributed for cards like scrap dragon if you don't need it anymore.
Shallow grave will be a good switch for monster reborn in decks that have many high defense monsters as well as flip effect monsters, but your opponent needs a monster in grave to.

Heavy storm. Hmmmm nothing good comes to mind except for Black rose dragon. You could have cards in like icarus attack or offering to the snake deity or just put one more dark bribe or MST.
(I dont think i will get the 50 on heavy i don't have any ideas.)

2. Definitely Crystal beasts. Heavy storm was their greatest enemy and finally they overcame it.
    Zombies. Mezuki and Plague are semi now so that should bring them up again.
    Vampires for the same reason.
    T.G. because Striker came back so that should speed them up a bit.
    Deck out/stall. Scapegoat came back.
    Out of ideas.
3. E- hero stratos. I mean it's good that e-call got off but not many people used Heroes so why konami why.
   Gold sarco. That card was overpowered a bit, but seriously first sangan now this. There are no more good searchers out there. Many decks that base on a single card are out of busyness.


Last edited by The Doctor on Mon Aug 26, 2013 11:53 am; edited 1 time in total
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Phoenixofpain

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 9:54 pm

Replacement for heavy storm: A wingbeat of giant dragon for dragon decks, Mst, Night Beam, Malevolent Catastrophe, and royal decree are some cards that could replace heavy storm. While there is no perfect replacement for it, A wingbeat of giant dragon is the closest as its cost is very minor and can easily fulfilled ( although a wingbeat can really only be used in dragon decks as a replacement as stated ).

Replacement for Monster Reborn: Call of the Haunted and Pinpoint Guard are 2 replacements for monster reborn. Only major difference really is that they are traps and only revive from your graveyard..

Decks that Benefit: Hieratics Benefit due to the fact they got convocation back to 3 which increases deck consistency, Also summon stopping cards have been hit or are at 1 ( compulse to 1, bth to 1, torrential to 1, solemn warning still at one, and judgment is banned although i don't know why you would use judgment unless you had to ). Also Mind Drain, Macro Cosmos, and Dimensional Fissure are all at 1 now and those cards didn't kill hieratics but it did slow them down.

Zombies Benefit Because of mezuki, plaguespreader zombie comming to 2 as well as Malicious comming back to 3 making the deck much more viable, consistent, and faster.

Blackwings obviously Benefit with Whirlwind returning to 3. Gives them the speed they needed.

T.G. gained Striker back which allows them to do some more plays and i guess makes the deck a bit more consistent and Agents got earth back to 3 increasing consistency so the deck are more playable.

As for a card that shouldn't have been hit on the banlist I think stratos was unnecessary. The deck really didn't do much in the tcg and stratos ( while abusable ) was in a sense the cornerstone of the deck. Its the card that gave the deck speed and xyz plays. Although E call and A hero lives are at 3 now so you can work around it to an extent, you still miss out on a valuable monster that made the deck what it is, an Anti meta deck.

As for a card i think should have been hit, I think Spellbook of fate should have been at least at 2 ( preferably limited ). Konami basically hit monster removal cards but all the ones they hit can be stopped via lance or something. Fate can be stopped but to an extent it is slightly harder since it doesn't target and because of that even if you lance your monster they can just choose a different card on your field to banish. This may just be my personally dislike for Fate but i think the card should have been put to 2 at least.
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IxKingofKingsxI

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Aug 25, 2013 11:55 pm

part 1: call of the haunted, monster reincarnation, rope of life (risky but could be beneficial for some decks) those in place of monster reborn. in place of heavy storm: malevolent catastrophe, storm (in the event you can push for game) mystical space typhoon, dust tornado.

part 2: Trap monster decks. granted they dont have a lot of support ive been playing around with them and they do alright for the most part. with heavy gone and what not its a lot more difficult to do mass destruction to them. 

Part 3: thousand eyes restrict. this card is much too slow in todays game. its just not worth getting it out and can be destroyed much too easily with a lot of simple effects now a days.
ophion should have been at least limited. for any deck that like to spam out monsters (which is most decks) ophion just says nope! and gets a free card for very little cost.
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Mebmunay

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptyMon Aug 26, 2013 1:02 am

1. For the replacement for "Monster Reborn" obviously "Call of The Haunted", and for "Heavy Storm" "Malevolent Catastrophe" they never see it coming.

2. Hero's will benefit in my personal opinion mainly, because while "Elemental Hero Stratos" is banned he was mainly there to replace the missing "E - Emergency Call", this will give room not to waste your normal summon on a searcher monster. "T.G. Striker" will improve the search power of T.G. decks.

3. "Number 16: Shock Master" should of not been on the ban list in my personal opinion he could only stop one type of card at a time, and was easy as hell to hop over with "Heraldry Record". "Grapha, Dragon Lord of Dark World" should of been limited, a monster with 2700 that is easily special summoned, searched, and has a field spell that goes hand and hand with him is a bit overpowerd.
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Twio12

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptyMon Aug 26, 2013 6:42 am

1. Monster Reborn can be replaced by cards like CotH and Pinpoint Guard, or an extra Book of Life if you happen to be playing Zombies. Heavy Storm can be replaced with Malevolent Catastrophe, or by simply adding more MSTs to your deck.

2. Blackwings: A 3rd Whirlwind and less backrow to worry about.
   Zombies: 2 Mezuki, 2 Plaguespreader + they don't really mind losing Reborn due to Book of Life.
   Mecha Phantom Beasts: That deck is crazy with 3 Scapegoat.
   Chain Beat: https://i.imgur.com/gZmg9tZ.jpg
   Now you can set 5 backrow + field and not worry about Heavy. Also, Chain Beat decks don't use   Reborn or Heavy anyway.

3. I don't think Constellar Ptolemy M7 should have been on the list. He's certainly not broken, and Constellars haven't been winning anything lately. If it was a pre-emptive strike, then in my opinion limiting Pleiades or Omega would have been a better move.

   I think Spellbook of Fate should have been semi-limited, maybe even limited since it's searchable by Secrets and Spellbook Magician. It has a very powerful effect which doesn't target, and as I said before, it's easily searchable.
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rakhalix

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptyMon Aug 26, 2013 3:33 pm

1. Monster reborn Replacement:
-Call of the haunted
-Miracle wake
-> Heavy storm replacement:
-Malelovent catastrophe
-Mystical space typhoon
2.
-Infernity Why?, since heavy storm is banned, heavy storm cant destroy infernities backrow, like Infernity barrier and others s/t.
3.
should not be on the list:
-Constellar ptolemy M7 because well it can only take cards from grave/field/others to hand.
Should be on the list:
-Rekindling because it's the perfect card to summon quasar if we use a laval quasar deck.....
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The Doctor

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptyMon Aug 26, 2013 3:39 pm

Oops i misunderstood the last question i wrote both that shouldn't be.
Correction.
Should be---- Evilswarm castor. Because they didn't do anything to Evilswarms and his limitation would slow the deck down a bit.
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Judgment Dragon

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptyTue Aug 27, 2013 11:05 pm

1)
Monster Reborn:
Call Of The Haunted.
Heavy Storm:
Mystical Space Typhoon.

2)
Decks that can benefit.
Lightsworns
(They haven't been hit at all and with solemn judgment and heavy storm gone they can possibly start to play a little bit more backrow?)
Wind-ups
(They got magician back which gives them a better chance of competing with some of the High tier decks and leaves them open for more summoning and combos?)
Hieratics
(Hieratic Seal Of Convocation is now at 3 so they have a bit more of search power)
Agents
(None of there cards got hit and now that Heavy storm is taken from the equation they don't need to worry as much about there backrow being taken out, because although they can get there monsters out fairly easy they need there backrow if they want to be competitive)

What should and shouldn't be on the list.
I don't think Monster Reborn should be on there, the reason being is I don't think it changed the game much with it being at 1. It's a card that could go in every deck and benefit everyone. I can't see the harm in that.

A card I think should be on the list is Deck Devastation Virus. If you're playing a deck that has a lot of monsters then this card can give you an automatic game loss, and the fact it is used in Dark World decks where they can get a 2700 out first turn a lot of the time, it won't matter that you need to tribute him because you can just get him back next turn.
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Pride

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #11: The New Banlist   Lesson #11:  The New Banlist EmptySun Sep 01, 2013 4:06 am

Topic locked and points will be awarded momentarily.  Great job everyone!  We got a lot of great responses!
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