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 Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"

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Nottu

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PostSubject: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:00 am

First topic message reminder :

Good day ODA students. I hope you all enjoyed last week's lesson on "Facing the Meta: E-Dragons" because we're continuing that subject this week with "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks."


(Go figure Nottu is talking about the Spellbooks)


Let's start with a mini breakdown of the deck.


The main monsters used in the deck are the Prophecy monsters. Over the last several months, the deck has shifted several builds and dropped several cards. I'll go over each card used now.


1. High Priestess of Prophecy
 
Every archetype worth its salt has a good boss monster. High Priestess is the boss of Prophecy and a fine one at that. What makes her so good is not just her power to destroy cards by banishing a "Spellbook" spell, but she can get around "Solemn Judgment" via her own Special Summon effect. How awesome, right? Just reveal 3 Spellbooks from your hand and she's out on the field. Not as commonly run in most Judgment Builds now, but still a valuable asset of a boss to run. I personally run 3 in my build, but most run 1-2 now.


2. Spellbook Magician of Prophecy

In a sense, this guy is like the "Elemental HERO Stratos" of Prophecy. Summon him or flip him face-up and you get a Spellbook spell to your hand. He's almost always seen on the first turn of a Prophecy/Spellbook player. You CAN Veiler him, but that doesn't necessarily help you. This guy is almost always run in three.


3. Justice of Prophecy

This little lady has seen much more play since "Spellbook of Judgment" was released. At the End Phase of your turn, if you played at least 1 Spellbook spell, you can banish her to add to your hand 1 Spellbook spell and 1 Level 5 or higher LIGHT or DARK Spellcaster (like High Priestess). Normally, you'll see her Special Summoned via Spellbook of Judgment during the End Phase so she can use her effect immediately.  Probably won't see her as much with Priestess being used less now.


4. Temperance of Prophecy

Not used as commonly now but still a fairly useful card. Generally, this card will be run in Spellbook variant decks or Budget builds that can't afford 3 Spellbook of Judgment. A fast means to get the High Priestess out, or even Reaper of Prophecy. If it IS Reaper, then they likely have filled up their Graveyard with 5 or so Spellbooks. Keep an eye on their Graveyard when the play Temperance. She CAN be Veilered and that can slow them down a turn.


5. Stoic of Prophecy

Like Temperance, this card is not used as often but still crops up once in a while. This guy fetches the Level 3 Prophecy monsters like Justice, Fool and Temperance. Usually he is in the budget builds or even the Reaper builds.


6. Reaper of Prophecy

This guy has his own variant of the deck centered on him. He has 3 effects, all of which can be used at the same time, as long as they have the Spellbooks in the Graveyard. He boosts his ATK by 600, searches a new Spellbook, and can Special Summon another Level 5 or higher DARK Spellcaster, such as himself or Prophecy Destroyer (or Dark Magician Girl.) In the OCG builds, they'll sometimes get out Destroyer and overlay for Magi Magi * Magician Gal, but in the TCG we don't have that pleasure. Veiler is a good card to use on Reaper.


7. Prophecy Destroyer

Normally only seen in Reaper builds or variants like pure Prophecy. Just a beat stick that can revive himself.


8. Hermit of Prophecy

Rarely seen but usefull in Xyz focused builds.


9. Strength of Prophecy, Charioteer of Prophecy, Armores of Prophecy, Emperor of Prophecy, Wheel of Prophecy.
I can guarantee you won't see these cards in the competitive builds.


10. World of Prophecy

OCG only right now. This is the Judgment Dragon and Dark Magician of Chaos for Spellbooks. Will cover it another time when its relevant to the meta game.


Other Monsters commonly seen in Spellbooks


1. Jowgen the Spiritualist
A spellcaster that stops Special Summons. Can discard 1 card to destroy all Special Summoned monsters on the field. Perfect counter to Dragon Rulers.


2. Effect Veiler
Do I need to explain this guy?


3. Kycoo the Ghost Destroyer
Another great answer to Dragon Rulers. They won't be able to banish for their effects. Also helps against Chaos decks.


4. Toon Gemini Elf
Confused? Don't be. "Spellbook of Judgment" works off os Spell Cards, not just Spellbooks, so many people started running 3 "Toon Table of Contents" and "Toon Gemini Elf" to get an easy 3 Spells off. Not only that, but Toon Gemini Elf is a decent beater who can make them lose their hand.


The Spellbooks


1. Spellbook of Secrets

THIS is the key spell in the whole engine. Judgment makes for broken plays? Secrets is the starting point. The ROTA of Spellbooks. If you stop this card dead, they will be hurting. Cursed Seal of the Forbidden Spell anyone?


2. Spellbook of the Master

Can't play 2 Secrets in a turn? I'll just copy it then! Spellbook of the Master aides in the long plays done by Spellbooks by copying the effect (not name) of any Normal Spellbook in the Graveyard. (Secrets, Power, Eternity are the normal targets)


3. Spellbook of Power

Spellbooks have no problem getting around beaters. An extra 1000 ATK is nothing to laugh at, especially if they used Master as well for a whoping 2000 added ATK. Even the smallest monster, Stoic, goes up to 2300 ATK. Plus if the monster that was "Power"ed destroys a monster in battle, they search a new Spellbook.


4. The Grand Spellbook Tower

The field Spell. Gives them an extra draw and recycles a Spellbook from their graveyard. Destroying it lets them Special Summon a Spellcaster too. If you plan to MST or Heavy, do so when their Grave is empty, if ever.


5. Spellbook of Fate

This utlity spell is so powerful these days. By banishing 1 to 3 Spellbooks from the graveyard, they can: Bounce a Set backrow, Set your monster, or Banish any card. This card also does not target, which makes it a real pain.


6. Spellbook of Eternity

With Priestess and Fate banishing all those Spellbooks, you'd expect them to run out right? Nope. Eternity recycles them.


7. Spellbook of Life

The Premature Burial of Spellbooks. It also aides in Synchro/Xyz plays since the revived monster with have a level increase.


8. Spellbook of Wisdom

A quick-play Spell that offers 1 Spellcaster immunity from Spells or Traps for the turn. Helps keep Priestess out on the field longer.


9. Spellbook Star Hall

More commonly used now with Judgment builds. It gains Spell Counters for every Spellbook played that grant 100 extra ATK for Spellcasters and it doesn't have the usual Spellbook restriction of "You can only play 1 -Spellbook- per turn." Meaning you can drop all three copies for an additional 3 counts for Judgment as well as gain some power boosts. Oh and it it gets destroyed, they add to their hand a Spellcaster whose level is the number of Counters it had or less.


10. Spellbook of Judgment

Here's the ace. When they play this, be ready for a massive amount of Spellbooks. They will literally empty thier hand this turn and refill it and then some. See, for every Spell Card played after Judgment, they get that number of Spellbooks added to their hand in the End Phase. (So if they played 4 Spell cards, they can get up to four Spellbooks.) They also get to Special Summon 1 Spellcaster whose level is up to the same as the amount of Spellbooks they added to hand. (They CAN go up to 7 Spells in a turn and drop a Priestess). This is one of the key cards to stop if you can.


So what are good ways to counter these might arcane users? Well anything that shuts down Spell Cards is a good option. Naturia Beast, Horus the Black Flame Dragon LV8, even Curse of Darkness will punish them. The best thing to do is to stop them from getting their searches. Thunder King Rai Oh works wonders as can Deck Lockdown. If you have shield cards that will protect all you monsters (Infestation Pandemic) then keep them on reserve. You don't want Fate to screw you over.


SO now I want you guys to try to come up with ways to combat these Spellcasters. Aside from cards I mentioned, name a good way to counter Spellbooks. And, since I didn't cover it, I want you to try and tell me what deck you think is a good match up VS Spellbooks. Is it Evilswarms? Gravekeeper's? Maybe Elemental HERO? You decide and tell me what's a good match up to stop Spellbooks and explain why. Don't forget, you can also bounce ideas off of each other an discuss these things and STILL get credit for it! I award students who put forth effort.


I'm giving out 100 OD for the Counter answer and 200 OD for the Match Up.




Last edited by Pride The Arrogant on Sun Aug 25, 2013 7:43 pm; edited 2 times in total (Reason for editing : Added a few things; Ty Maxxie)
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Nottu

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:25 pm

LastHope wrote:
First of all, rakhalix, that Deck is clearly outdated and copy-pasted from the internet. Seriously, do your research. Premature Burial is Forbidden, and Solemn Judgment is Limited. That Deck is a very old counterspell Deck.

Now, then, onto my own answer. I personally don't think Decks can get better than the Meta. After all, there's a reason they're in top usage.

However, if we're just talking about Spellbooks, maybe I can work something out. First, (how has nobody said this one) due to the vast array of Attributes that Prophecy monsters have, Gozen Match could be good for blockading them from moar summons. Sure, it doesn't stop the core problem, which are the books themselves, but hey, the Deck sure does need its monsters to function at its best. That's almost a given.

Now, while I could sure make a point that any pure attribute Deck can, with an obscene method for getting Shock Master/Gozen Match onto the field first turn, halt Prophecy in their tracks. But that's rather unrealistic. It actually kinda shocked me when I realized that the monsters that could potentially bring the downfall of Prophecy were another generation of Spellcasters! And an older generation, at that. These guys have access to Shock Master, Gozen Match, and a neat card that originated with them and has spread to many Decks to counter things just like Prophecy and E-Drags.

This Deck is Gravekeepers. No, I don't care that this is no shock as it's listed as a possibility in the lesson plan itself. As MadDawg previously mentioned, Necrovalley has perks against Prophecybooks. Wow, better inference than I expected from him. Anyway, that card helps in a number of ways. (First off, I was almost stupid enough to say that it prevents Tower's effect from working, completely derping out of the fact that they're both Field Spells). One of the best things is that, oh boy, it makes Fate completely and utterly dead. Also, it prevents them from making continued use of those annoying Spellbooks you already dealt with once with High Priestess. Sure, the player can still use cards from their hand, but hey, that's one less Spellbook that they're activating, which never hurts. And if they blast Necrovalley, Gravekeepers have plenty of ways to get a new one.

Gravekeepers have the other advantage of, as previously mentioned, being able to run Gozen Match. The card's main drawback is that it prevents you from using things such as Shock Master (though if you're a tough guy you can try LIGHT fairies to counter Spellbooks and you can still run Shock Master, tell me how it goes :3). In exchange, the different-attribute cards of your opponent become useless to them, and you can literally let their little Spellbook Magician of Prophecy sit there clogging their Summons (take that, WATER Spellcaster! Go back to Fortune Ladies where you belong!) while you prepare your more explosive plays. Yes, even their Judgment's summon is screwed by Gozen! Now, you won't always (or even often) find yourself faced with a lonely Magician, but with a little outside influence (caused by you and your decently beatsticky Gravekeepers and ploxy spells) you can make it happen, and that's when this card shines its brightest. Whoops, sorry guys. I might have just messed with your strategy a little bit.

So yeah. With ways to easily search both Necrovalley and Gozen Match, Gravekeepers can fairly reliably keep their head above their opponents on this one. What's the catch? Even after everything they've done to look the part, Gravekeepers are simply not all that good of beaters, especially in the face of Spellbook of Power. It's fairly easy to run these guys back unless you're locked into your rare-Attribute monsters. However, played properly and to their strengths, Gravekeepers could be an exceptional match versus Spellbooks.
This an a fine answer Hope. Gravekeeper's can be versatile today just as they always have been. Excellent explanations.


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 9:54 pm

When i think about countering prophecies the first deck i think of is.. Six Samurai. That is because the first thing people think about when they here sams is Shi-en the boss monster of there deck his effect is: Once per turn, during either player's turn, when your opponent activatesSpell/Trap Card: You can negate the activation, and if you do, destroyit. If this card would be destroyed, you can destroy another face-up "Six Samurai" monster you control instead. This gives sames a huge advantage against opponents 1 shien can negate a Spell or Trap and 2 if it were to be destroyed it can destroy another six sam instead and lots of players usually forget about his second effect. Shien and Priestess both have 2500 ATK but shien has an advantage over it b/c if priestess tries to use its effect you can use shien effect or better yet activate magatama which is another great protector  of six samurais. But enough about shien lets move on to what the Whole deck can do if its played right. six sams r fast swarmers
they can xyz/shynchro easily and stun decks so they cant use spells, traps and monster effects like beast and barkion besides shi en summoning these two would make u have a huge advantage against spell books. Six samurai can also xyz/synchro big monsters over 2500 easily as well which would kill priestess. They also have cards like Gateway, enishi, zanji, kizan kagemusha kageki and shadow which make a huge difference in the deck with there effects especially Gateway if you have that on the field your win ( most of the time ) is guaranteed.




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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:04 pm

hmm how would an arch type like say "Gusto" fair up against the Meta?
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:05 pm

i feel bad about my response now it feels so inadequate before LH's response
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 10:31 pm

Well a few cards you can use to help combat spellbooks are; deck lockdown, Thunder King ( to stop spellbooks from adding cards ), If you can side this then side Eradicator Epidemic Virus and call spells, and for people who wannab e a little techy if you run hieratics or elemental dragons you could also try horus level 6/8 ( 6 to get level 8 out ), when you get Horus level 8 its pretty much a 3000 beater that can negate any spell multiple times per turn ( and per chain as well ) making priestess one of their only ways out. Finally another card which is commonly sided is prohibition. If you call judgment day you can slow down the deck quite abit.

Those are cards that can lockdown/slow down spellbooks. Now as for the deck with the best matchup, Anti-meta decks, E dragons ( all the effect negation in the main plus eradicator in the side not to mention the draw power of the deck makes it a good match-up ), Gravekeepers can have a good spellbook match-up if they draw necro valley and also because the deck can side in EED if they side it, Evilswarm and heroes can combat spellbooks since they run tons of traps, the only issue about the decks are they can't keep up with the speed of spellbooks so it would be a difficult match-up. Now six samurai can go against spellbooks if they can get Great shogun and shien ( the level 6 synchro ) out on the field because that pretty much puts the deck at a stand still and if that field can be maintined they can get game.
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:00 pm

Good answer as well, similar to the rest already posted but good al the same.


I think we've pretty well covered the suitable generic counters and good match ups, does anyone have any questions about Spellbooks that I can answer?


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:04 pm

What do you think might be hit on the banlist?
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Thu Jun 20, 2013 11:09 pm

I believe that the "Spellbook of Secrets" will be limited. It is a search spell that searches for more searches (yo dawg, I heard you like...)


Secrets is the key to the whole engine. With out it, the deck does not run as it should.


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:38 am

i think judgment needs to go down to 1 or 2 as well.
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 12:44 am

That's my old deck.


 Meet My pet..... The Galaxy - Eyes Tachyon Dragon!!!.

 The Galaxy - Eyes User, Misael The Dragon Tamer!!!.

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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:03 am

jammy wrote:
i think judgment needs to go down to 1 or 2 as well.
Maybe, but think of it this way:
With out Spellbook of Secrets to lead the combo, what god is Judgment? Given the can still run Toon Table of Contents, but Secrets is the cog that keeps the Spellbooks run like clockwork.


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:07 am

Yes I doubt they will hit Judgment in Sept. If anything they will hit Secrets (to 1) and Fate.

Judgment is too new to be hit.



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:09 am

one word. Ojamas
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:16 am

Fate is rather OP, but I don't know if they'll really touch it.


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:17 am

Magical Hero Nottu wrote:
Fate is rather OP, but I don't know if they'll really touch it.
It's the most obvious choice to hit. It's the deck's only defense.
They'll hit either Fate or Master.



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:20 am

Kyonaru wrote:
Magical Hero Nottu wrote:
Fate is rather OP, but I don't know if they'll really touch it.
It's the most obvious choice to hit. It's the deck's only defense.
They'll hit either Fate or Master.
Why would they need to hit Master if they hit Secrets though? They aren't going to hit Spellbooks so hard that no one wants to play them. 


If Fate really is the deck's only defense, then why hit it at all? If they only have 1, then the deck is, in a sense, screwed on its defensive plays.


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:21 am

Look at what they did to Wind-Ups. If they're gonna hit a tier 1 they'll do it hard enough not to allow it to be top tier anymore.



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:22 am

Wind-Ups only lost 1 card and had 1 limited. Nothing in Spellbooks is ban-worthy once Secrets is limited.


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:28 am

Judgment deserves a spot on the banned cards list, but as I said, they won't hit it because it's too new. You can just abuse secrets with Master and recycle it with Fate and Eternity.
Fate is the deck's only defense and it's recyclable hence it needs to be hit. Imagine a Karma Cut that hits every card on the field, has practically no cost, is searchable and recyclable. How balanced is that? Not very.

Wind-Ups were hit hard enough to make them almost unplayable. They banned their only GOOD Xyz monster and limited the card that allows them to do combos (and OTK), and yet Mermails still have their Megalo/Diva OTK. Imagine Prophecy with Magician banned and fate limited, or E-Dragons with Big Eye banned and Dracossack limited. Sucks doesn't it?



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:30 am

I think I could handle Fate Limited honestly. Is Spellbook Magician worth hitting?


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:34 am

There are many things that can be hit in prophecy that hinder their consistency, such as Secrets, Fate, Magician, Master (which i doubt will be hit since the deck can works wonders without it), and Judgment (if banned Prophecy loses it's tier 1 spot).

Honestly even if they hit Judgment and limited it nothing would change. It can easily be recycled.
Magician is the deck's Stratos.. which should go. But again, we're dealing with Konami here, so you never know.



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:36 am

So perhaps we will see
Secrets - 1

Magician - 1
Fate - 1


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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:37 am

Yes that's what I'm expecting, although I doubt they're gonna hit so many cards in a single banlist.



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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:37 am

still though the banlist isnt for a little over 2 months so its impossible to say for sure.
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PostSubject: Re: Lesson #3 "Facing the Meta: Spellbooks"   Fri Jun 21, 2013 1:39 am

True true. We have until September. Surprise us Konami!


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